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Post by thequitterxavier on Feb 24, 2010 16:23:41 GMT -5
as a person who has judged in sw. cpw. rof. and new. it is always easier for me to judge a place with limits. Perhaps thats just me. Like i said i am merely saying that there is a lot of people bitching about this among each other. Cam was just the first to voice it on the boards as of late. as for me saying it is more like 15 % I feel that most matches are set up where two people are fairly close in skill. it is rare for a gina to hold the lowest title. so when skills are close quanity does matter. recent examples include....redline nightmare v michaels and magnus. tyler shane v chuie. royal rumble for the air raid title. i typically talk to at least two or 3 judges every week about votes just because i like to see what people value in judging.
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Post by Karen DiMarcio on Feb 24, 2010 17:03:15 GMT -5
After seeing what limits did to FCW, hell if I'd want to judge 50 RPs posted in the last hour that're all the size of 5-6 normal ones.
Not every judge votes every week because of schedules/such, so I really want to know where people are getting all this information when Joe and I are rarely even asked about stuff..And we're the ones that judge every single week/never miss a week..Especially Joe, who COLLECTS the votes and knows judges' reasoning if there was any given. So really, if you're asking "2-3" judges a week..Who exactly are you asking?
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Post by Katelyn Mayhem on Feb 24, 2010 21:29:03 GMT -5
I'd like to post in this topic if that's alright with you all.
Joe, I remember the match you were talking about clearly and you're correct, you never once said anything about going for the one with more posts. My post here came from the feelings I've been told by three people. All three have since posted in this topic and one has defended a view opposite of what he had told me which makes me question his honesty.
That being said I agree with Gina and Joe now. A limit wouldn't change anything. In SW I was almost assuredly the only one sometimes who would post throughout the week. Also, the length game would start a problem and after hearing all the arguments I will retract my original statements. I think it's good that this has helped to allow people to voice their personal opinions out in the air and I apologize if I caused any trouble with this topic.
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The Jester
CPW Veteran
"Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is in prison."
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Post by The Jester on Feb 24, 2010 21:40:26 GMT -5
So, since everyone else has thrown their two cents in, here's mine:
I don't think it matters. As was said before, if I want to write 25 RP's and put them in one post, what's to stop me? Sure, you could say that it's no longer a single roleplay if there are some extreme inconsistencies throughout, but generally speaking, during any given week a writer's roleplays will be at least loosely connected. You might say that it's a different roleplay if there is a change of setting, but I don't think that's fair either. I'm not one for particularly long roleplays but even I have done roleplays in which the setting changes, maybe even as two seperate posts, but I would personally consider that one roleplay (most often in a series "Part One, Part Two, etc"). So I think the lines of what would be cheating (for lack of a better word) and squeezing in a bunch of roleplays into one would be quite subjective and not definite whatsoever.
To be honest, maybe this issue has already been discussed and remedied, my short attention span has only allowed me to skim this topic haha.
I think that if there was a limit, though, that people should be allowed to go over the limit and have only their best two (or three or whatever the limit is) roleplays counted. The reason being this:
1) I might get the idea for two roleplays earlier in the week and go ahead and write them, but then I get an idea a few days later for a much better roleplay pertaining to my match that week. Then I'm S.O.L. and sandbagging would have paid off dividends.
2) Also, I know myself and other people sometimes like to roleplay when we don't even have a match. With this in mind, there may be times when you want to post a roleplay and you're already at your limit, but you don't even really care if it's counted toward your match that week.
Again, this may have already been discussed, idk.
Just my thoughts. All in all, I think it would mostly be an unnecessary rule that wouldn't matter anyways because you could group several roleplays into one.
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Post by WTFWILL on Feb 24, 2010 21:53:37 GMT -5
Joe just won the topic.
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Post by thequitterxavier on Feb 25, 2010 2:13:48 GMT -5
I am going to set something straight since "you question my honesty"
1) I do think that there should be rp limits....
2) I do think there is times where quantity floods out quality.... People can speak up for themselves but I know going back to the days of SW people have been led to believe "4 good rps > 1 great rp"
3) I do not feel the judging staff is corrupt or in need of removal. I do feel that certain people favor certain styles of writing. However that is life. Some people like romance novels, some like science fiction. Does it make anyone corrupt no. Does it mean certain writers might catch their eye and really stand out yes. For me Hyde is amazing. I thoroughly enjoy reading all of his rps. Does that mean I am corrupt no.
4) I want to personally apologize for any comments I have made in my past year here that might have led someone to believe I questioned Ryan, Joe and Gina's integrity. They have always been straight up with me. If I ask them why I lost they tell me. Whether I agree with it or not is my own business but they have never given me a blow off or a lie. They are the most regular judges and the ones I converse with when I vote.
5) I request no responses made on what I am saying in this post. The people that this is directed to please talk to me off the boards if you want.
6) Again I know this seems like I am leaving on the heels of some stupid drama. I assure you that I have nothing but respect for 99% of fedders I have met. I can name the 1% on one hand. I am not angry with cpw staff, judges, or any rps sent my way.....
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Post by hugh on Feb 25, 2010 16:11:20 GMT -5
You cannot limit the number of roleplays without limiting length, it's pointless. As said people can (and will) just combine their multiple roleplays into one. Deadline whoring wouldn't matter if people could only post one RP a day, that could only be so long. They simply could not take advantage of the system and they would be screwing themselves by trying.
Personally I like having limits on RPs. It forces writers to meet you on equal grounds and it's literally impossible for anyone to ever claim that another person won because they posted more. This is for fun, but anyone who cares remotely about his/her characters wants them to have success. Your record can and should have an impact on your RPs.
But it won't work here. CPW hasn't existed in E-fedding as long as I have, but it has been far more reliable then me or any of the old e-feds that I used to enjoy so much. That means something.
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Clipper
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Post by Clipper on Feb 25, 2010 17:35:29 GMT -5
Okay, so I just read this entire topic. Jesus Christ Joe, WALL OF FUCKING TEXT IN MY EYES...XD. Still, I guess I'll throw in my input. First of all, I'm not going to say there isn't an issue. There is, I think--that's something I disagree with Joe/Gina on, something that doesn't happen often. However, as Gina said, it is completely impossible to fix this issue. Every fed has its issues, regardless of rules, and a roleplay limit will only complicate things for RPers and judges alike. I have lost the occasional match to Gina or Joe or someone else when they've put up 6 roleplays to my 4 and our quality was more or less equal. Sometimes, rarely, it happens. I'd say probably a little more than the 2% expressed earlier, and fairly less than the 15% Brad thinks. Maybe 4-6% at most. I've also won the occasional match against people who wrote at pretty equal quality and I wrote another RP and they didn't. I've also been demolished (usually by Ryan when he's in Axl rant mode and verbally rapes everyone) when I've posted 6 RPs and he's posted 2. In fact... Ryan is probably the best example of someone who can put up one roleplay against someone else's four roleplays and win--and sometimes, it's not even a debate in the judges' minds. And as far as I'm concerned, effort should very rarely, if ever, be a factor in judging roleplays. I'm sorry, but if I put in a shitload of effort through 5 roleplays, and Ryan puts in very little effort in 1, and my 5 still aren't good enough, then I wasn't good enough. You want to get a trophy for participation or some shit, go play Tee-Ball or Pee-Wee Football. If you're not good enough, you don't win. Period. -- I understand both sides. I understand what Gina is saying. I also understand that if it was limited then no one could say "You lost because your opponent put in more effort by posting more rps" I am not saying judges have said this but lets be completely honest people feel like they lose because they do not have time to put up as many rps as a person like Cam or Blackman or Redline. So is it really fair to someone who has a job or med school or a social life to lose when their quality was close just because they could only write 3 rps to their opponents 10. I mean Cam isnt lying when he says that there has been a lot of talk about this ooc. Heck people have even made deals with each other on how many rps they would post because no one wants to get "flooded" Nonetheless it doesn't concern me, but I did want to offer the bit of knowledge that while Cam may be the only person that posted it on the boards, he isnt the only one feeling like this is an issue. This talk comes up from time to time, among everyone, administrators included. As has already been said, it's not a fixable solution. The consequences for instituting a roleplay limit would be much worse than the benefits of it, if there are any. If you're too busy to put in necessary effort and have a major problem with losing that requires you to put in your best effort every week without fail...then perhaps you should consider taking a break. – Coincidentally, I don't think the whole "spam a shit ton of RPs" thing works unless it's for some kind of clusterfuck match like Suicidal Tendencies or a Battle Royale. Fact of the matter is, nobody here (no offense to anyone) can post 15-20 RPs in a week and maintain a respectable level of quality. Black Man put up 17 RPs to Chuie's 12, and Chuie still won. ST08, I put up like 16 RPs and had the most that week, while Joe and Gina put up the least amount out of the top six that year and they ended up being the top two. I have a job. I go to class. I have homework, a social life, responsibilities... and I'll RP what I can each week. If that week, my overall quality is better than my opponent's, great. But I'm just going to tell you, I've never seen someone spam a shit ton in a normal match and wind up winning. This is a great example that quantity does NOT beat quality here, though as already mentioned, in some cases, it does play a factor. People seem to get this idea that the more roleplays they put up, the better chance they have of winning. That's untrue, as Will knows and understands, and frankly, to suggest anything to the contrary is insulting to people who judge matches. Sometimes, it happens, and admittedly, every once in awhile, we probably subconsciously make the mistake, but that mistake will be made one way or the other debating short vs. long roleplays. We go out of our way to insure that quality DOES win over quantity. Can you explain this to me then, they this week me and Will are match with Quality but will posts 2 more rps than me, who wins that match? Will because he had more time to write more than me? I think that is where cam is coming from, and I know that an out come of a match that was close has been decided like this before. I'm not here to argue or be a dick but that concerns people like me who simply dnt have the time to go all out week in week out. Would an RP limit be better I don't know will it effect how I post my rps? No because I write and post RPs when I have the time to write and post them. Just my two cents Just to clarify, but where's your evidence to back up that Will beat you because he roleplayed more than you? Who'd you talk to and what exactly did they tell you? Not trying to be a jerk, but sometimes people get this idea that “So and so beat me because they roleplayed more or because so-and-so is friends with one of the judges” or whatever and sometimes they don't stop and think, “Wait a minute. Maybe I got beat because this guy was better than me,” which tends to be the case more often than not. I haven't judged in awhile, but my opinion's of Will's roleplays tend to be that I either really like them or they don't really capture my interest. He's pretty hit-or-miss for me sometimes, but his roleplays are usually pretty solid on most occasions nevertheless. My guess is that he was just better than you, in the minds of the judges that week. Amen...and limiting length is an even more awful idea than limiting roleplays, as it stifles creativity and flow of a lot of roleplays and sometimes forces people to split roleplays that would flow better as one large one.
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Post by hugh on Feb 25, 2010 17:57:31 GMT -5
I never felt 2,000 words to be stifling, and I very rarely see RPs around here reach that length.
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Post by Katelyn Mayhem on Feb 25, 2010 18:07:34 GMT -5
My last rp was over 20,000 characters. In the past I wrote an rp of an interview my character, Katie Mayhem had that was over 20,000 characters. Notice, I said characters, not words. Unless all my words are ten letters or longer 20,000 characters is a lot more than 2,000 words. That is why I've surrendered my arguement to Gina and Joes logic. If they limited the length of my rps or the amount for me to post in a week it would ruin my fun. I might win more but I wouldn't have as much fun. I have way more fun in CPW than I did in SW for the simple fact that I can rp 17 times in a week and they all count. I don't do it to flood the boards, I do it because it's fun to me. I've talked to Joe and Gina and I now agree with them. There was only one instance where a judge judged based on quantity alone. Not only did I not expect it to be this person but I was also appauled to find out that it was them, because they directly lied to me. However, the person in question is now a non-issue and off the judging staff.
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Clipper
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Osfcs25: I see the talent diamond shining through your emo dirt.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 26, 2010 1:45:52 GMT -5
So it's been brought to my attention that Will and Mark haven't faced and that was a hypothetical mention. So you can disregard that part of my post.
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Post by Katelyn Mayhem on Feb 27, 2010 13:35:27 GMT -5
I am going to set something straight since "you question my honesty" That part of my post was directed at someone else Brad. However, now that you mention it, I am starting to question your honesty.
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Post by rigormortisx on Feb 28, 2010 9:45:27 GMT -5
Cam, why would you Question it? Just remember when you point a finger at somebody else there is three pointing back at you.
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Jet
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Post by Jet on Feb 28, 2010 10:02:04 GMT -5
Cam, why would you Question it? Just remember when you point a finger at somebody else there is three pointing back at you. Unless one of the people have no fingers. Then we just feel sorry for them.
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Post by Katelyn Mayhem on Feb 28, 2010 14:28:13 GMT -5
I love you Jet. BTW Mark, I have talked with Brad since this.
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